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This page contains all of the posts and discussion on MemeStreams referencing the following web page: MarketWatch: Illness And Injury As Contributors To Bankruptcy -- Himmelstein et al., 10.1377/hlthaff.w5.63 -- Health Affairs. You can find discussions on MemeStreams as you surf the web, even if you aren't a MemeStreams member, using the Threads Bookmarklet.

MarketWatch: Illness And Injury As Contributors To Bankruptcy -- Himmelstein et al., 10.1377/hlthaff.w5.63 -- Health Affairs
by k at 1:32 pm EDT, Apr 15, 2005

Its quite simple. This law will cause an increase in dividend yeilds measured in small fractions of cents for companies that provide financial services, and the cost is to ruin people who have been the victims of severe unpredicatable catastrophies.

In other words, they are fucking you up the ass, and you are smiling about it all the way.

[ Be fair, the vast majority of people don't even know this happened, so they really have no opinion on it. They're getting fucked in the ass while they focus on other shit, like American Idol, or being poor already.

Anyway, you're misunderstanding, I think, the right's conception of being responsible, which is essentially that success is the measure of responsibility. It's a nice standard because being unprepared for the worst is the same as mismanaging. If you're not successful, it's your fault. You may not have been able to forsee the medical emergency, but you should have planned for it anyway. -k]


 
RE: MarketWatch: Illness And Injury As Contributors To Bankruptcy -- Himmelstein et al., 10.1377/hlthaff.w5.63 -- Health Affairs
by Decius at 7:12 pm EDT, Apr 15, 2005

k wrote:
] [ Be fair, the vast majority of people don't even know this
] happened, so they really have no opinion on it. They're
] getting fucked in the ass while they focus on other shit, like
] American Idol, or being poor already.

Yeah, but the pundits have been talking it up a bit in certain circles.

Its worth pointing out that the Democrats are certainly to blame here. They are all taking handouts from the finance industry. Publically visible figures like Edwards and Pelosi are "speaking out" to maintain some sort of connection with their constituency while the vast bulk of party voted for the bill. In Edward's case its positively creepy. He has voted for this stuff over and over again, and now that he is a party leader he is using opposition to this to promote himself. The only thing worse then a bunch of guys kicking cancer victims in the teeth for personal profit is a bunch of guys who do that while claiming to oppose it.


MarketWatch: Illness And Injury As Contributors To Bankruptcy -- Himmelstein et al., 10.1377/hlthaff.w5.63 -- Health Affairs
by Decius at 12:57 pm EDT, Apr 15, 2005

] In 2001, 1.458 million American families filed for
] bankruptcy. To investigate medical contributors to
] bankruptcy, we surveyed 1,771 personal bankruptcy filers
] in five federal courts and subsequently completed
] in-depth interviews with 931 of them. About half cited
] medical causes, which indicates that 1.9-2.2 million
] Americans (filers plus dependents) experienced medical
] bankruptcy. Among those whose illnesses led to
] bankruptcy, out-of-pocket costs averaged $11,854 since
] the start of illness; 75.7 percent had insurance at the
] onset of illness. Medical debtors were 42 percent more
] likely than other debtors to experience lapses in
] coverage. Even middle-class insured families often fall
] prey to financial catastrophe when sick.

There IS something more perverse then this bankruptcy bill. Its the conservatives who are celebrating its passing. These people are getting screwed, and they are happy about it. They are cheering it. They have been completely manipulated.

The idea that this bill is intended to prevent irresponsible people from using bankruptcy to avoid the consequences of their actions is simply not supported by the facts. If that were the case, there would be no reason that exceptions could not be made for people who face catastrophic medical expenses, and people who have dependent children and had recently been divorced. Neither of these circumstances is predicatable, and therefore neither can be considered irresponsible behavior. This can happen to any middle class family. Furthermore, an exception for medical bills exists for veterans. If it can exist for veterans, then it can exist for anyone.

Why not? All you have to do is ask why not have an exception for medical catastrophies. Keep asking until you get an answer that seems satisfactory. You will be enlightened.

Conservative readers will refuse to beleive what I'm suggesting the answer is. They will seek out any other explanation even if it is not entirely sound. They are fooling themselves. I encourage them to keep asking that question.

That answer is that were such exceptions applied to this law, the result would be unpalitable to its supporters, as likely 60-70 percent of the cases would be eliminated before the means test was even applied. Pile on other concerns such as theft, natural disasters, etc... The result would not have the economic impact that the advocates of this law seek.

People who tell you that bankruptcies raise interest rates surely have a poor understanding of economics. Interest rates are set by economic externialities, price competition, and demand. They are lower today then they have ever been.

Costs in the lending industry don't impact prices. They impact dividend yeilds for owners.

Its quite simple. This law will cause an increase in dividend yeilds measured in small fractions of cents for companies that provide financial services, and the cost is to ruin people who have been the victims of severe unpredicatable catastrophies.

In other words, they are fucking you up the ass, and you are smiling about it all the way.


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