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This page contains all of the posts and discussion on MemeStreams referencing the following web page: There Is No God By Penn Jillette . You can find discussions on MemeStreams as you surf the web, even if you aren't a MemeStreams member, using the Threads Bookmarklet.

There Is No God By Penn Jillette
by unmanaged at 9:34 pm EST, Dec 1, 2005

believe that there is no God. I'm beyond atheism. Atheism is not believing in God. Not believing in God is easy -- you can't prove a negative, so there's no work to do. You can't prove that there isn't an elephant inside the trunk of my car. You sure? How about now? Maybe he was just hiding before. Check again. Did I mention that my personal heartfelt definition of the word "elephant" includes mystery, order, goodness, love and a spare tire?

So, anyone with a love for truth outside of herself has to start with no belief in God and then look for evidence of God. She needs to search for some objective evidence of a supernatural power. All the people I write e-mails to often are still stuck at this searching stage. The atheism part is easy.

But, this "This I Believe" thing seems to demand something more personal, some leap of faith that helps one see life's big picture, some rules to live by. So, I'm saying, "This I believe: I believe there is no God."

Having taken that step, it informs every moment of my life. I'm not greedy. I have love, blue skies, rainbows and Hallmark cards, and that has to be enough. It has to be enough, but it's everything in the world and everything in the world is plenty for me. It seems just rude to beg the invisible for more. Just the love of my family that raised me and the family I'm raising now is enough that I don't need heaven. I won the huge genetic lottery and I get joy every day.

Believing there's no God means I can't really be forgiven except by kindness and faulty memories. That's good; it makes me want to be more thoughtful. I have to try to treat people right the first time around.

Believing there's no God stops me from being solipsistic. I can read ideas from all different people from all different cultures. Without God, we can agree on reality, and I can keep learning where I'm wrong. We can all keep adjusting, so we can really communicate. I don't travel in circles where people say, "I have faith, I believe this in my heart and nothing you can say or do can shake my faith." That's just a long-winded religious way to say, "shut up," or another two words that the FCC likes less. But all obscenity is less insulting than, "How I was brought up and my imaginary friend means more to me than anything you can ever say or do." So, believing there is no God lets me be proven wrong and that's always fun. It means I'm learning something.

Believing there is no God means the suffering I've seen in my family, and indeed all the suffering in the world, isn't caused by an omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent force that isn't bothered to help or is just testing us, but rather something we all may be able to help others with in the future. No God means the possibility of less suffering in the future.

Believing there is no God gives me more room for belief in family, people, love, truth, beauty, sex, Jell-O and all the other things I can prove and that make this life the best life I will ever have.


 
RE: There Is No God By Penn Jillette
by janelane at 2:57 pm EST, Dec 2, 2005

unmanaged wrote:
I believe that there is no God. I'm beyond atheism. Atheism is not believing in God.

Actually, according to dictionary.com,

a·the·ism
1. Disbelief in or denial of the existence of God or gods.
2. The doctrine that there is no God or gods.

A guest lecturer and research fellow should have more to contribute than regurgitated Thoreau. Fucking bloggers. Quit trying to appear so goddamn novel. You're an atheist. Get over it.

-janelane, unimpressed


  
RE: There Is No God By Penn Jillette
by Ethanol Demagogue at 12:42 am EST, Dec 3, 2005

janelane wrote:

unmanaged wrote:
I believe that there is no God. I'm beyond atheism. Atheism is not believing in God.

Actually, according to dictionary.com,

a·the·ism
1. Disbelief in or denial of the existence of God or gods.
2. The doctrine that there is no God or gods.

A guest lecturer and research fellow should have more to contribute than regurgitated Thoreau. Fucking bloggers. Quit trying to appear so goddamn novel. You're an atheist. Get over it.

-janelane, unimpressed

Not a blogger, a magician and TV skeptic.


 
RE: There Is No God By Penn Jillette
by MaxieZ at 9:57 pm EST, Dec 3, 2005

unmanaged wrote:
Not believing in God is easy -- you can't prove a negative

I assume the point is that since you can't prove a negative always start that way and see if you can go positive.

The problem is he's then going onto say that he does believe this position just because he can't prove the opposite.

Myself? I consider myself to be agnostic. Which to me means, "I don't know....could be...maybe not". I have no strong evidence thay god or gods exist. Honestly it's a little easier to believe in a guiding force than blind luck. Though I also know that I feel that way because it's easier to allow when there are so many aspects of the universe I don't or can't understand.

Atheist to me means that I know there is no god. I'll never know that.


There Is No God By Penn Jillette
by Shannon at 11:58 am EST, Dec 2, 2005

believe that there is no God. I'm beyond atheism. Atheism is not believing in God. Not believing in God is easy -- you can't prove a negative, so there's no work to do. You can't prove that there isn't an elephant inside the trunk of my car. You sure? How about now? Maybe he was just hiding before. Check again. Did I mention that my personal heartfelt definition of the word "elephant" includes mystery, order, goodness, love and a spare tire?

So, anyone with a love for truth outside of herself has to start with no belief in God and then look for evidence of God. She needs to search for some objective evidence of a supernatural power. All the people I write e-mails to often are still stuck at this searching stage. The atheism part is easy.

But, this "This I Believe" thing seems to demand something more personal, some leap of faith that helps one see life's big picture, some rules to live by. So, I'm saying, "This I believe: I believe there is no God."

Having taken that step, it informs every moment of my life. I'm not greedy. I have love, blue skies, rainbows and Hallmark cards, and that has to be enough. It has to be enough, but it's everything in the world and everything in the world is plenty for me. It seems just rude to beg the invisible for more. Just the love of my family that raised me and the family I'm raising now is enough that I don't need heaven. I won the huge genetic lottery and I get joy every day.

Believing there's no God means I can't really be forgiven except by kindness and faulty memories. That's good; it makes me want to be more thoughtful. I have to try to treat people right the first time around.

Believing there's no God stops me from being solipsistic. I can read ideas from all different people from all different cultures. Without God, we can agree on reality, and I can keep learning where I'm wrong. We can all keep adjusting, so we can really communicate. I don't travel in circles where people say, "I have faith, I believe this in my heart and nothing you can say or do can shake my faith." That's just a long-winded religious way to say, "shut up," or another two words that the FCC likes less. But all obscenity is less insulting than, "How I was brought up and my imaginary friend means more to me than anything you can ever say or do." So, believing there is no God lets me be proven wrong and that's always fun. It means I'm learning something.

Believing there is no God means the suffering I've seen in my family, and indeed all the suffering in the world, isn't caused by an omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent force that isn't bothered to help or is just testing us, but rather something we all may be able to help others with in the future. No God means the possibility of less suffering in the future.

Believing there is no God gives me more room for belief in family, people, love, truth, beauty, sex, Jell-O and all the other things I can prove and that make this life the best life I will ever have.


 
RE: There Is No God By Penn Jillette
by redrusso76 at 12:50 pm EST, Dec 5, 2005

This seems to somewhat miss the point of religion, and confuse to very different things:

There is a sharp distinction between not believing in God, and believing there is no God. The first is fundamentally characterized by doubt, the second by an act of faith. Call it what you will, or disguise it in the logic of not being able to "prove a negative", but the problem arises then that, in not being able to prove a negative, yet still asserting it, you are taking a leap of faith.

The only non-faith based aproach is to simply refrain from asserting the existence or non-existence of God. This is what science does. If given the proposition "There exists a planet made of gold" for which a scientist has no proof one way or another, the scientist will not say about the planet, as the writer of this article does about God, "I believe there is no such planet."

The writer of this misses the point of religion by asserting that people should start with doubt, and proceed from doubt to faith by gaining objective evidence. The problem here is that religion, at its most fudamental level, is not based on what can be perceived by the five senses given to us to view the world. By its very nature, religion asks humans to bypass their physical senses and have faith. To acquire faith through scientific means is oxymoronical, a contradiction in terms, a paradox of the most fundamental sort.

As long as a person realizes they are making as much of a leap of faith by believing there is no God as by believing there is, nothing is wrong there-- that is simply the faith the person chooses to live. That being the case, this person's address to NPR's "This I believe" is just that, their own exclusive faith. By stating that others should adopt this outlook as well, the writer is simply evangelising their faith.

While I do not think this is what the writer intends, confusion over the fundamental essence of what constitutes religious belief and evidence-based/scientific searches causes this essay to convey that meaning, and otherwise be consufed about its own choice of topic.


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