adam wrote:

Those who are interested in the safety and well-being of children should keep in mind that only motor vehicle accidents and cancer kill more children in the U.S. than firearms. A study released a few years ago by the Harvard School of Public Health compared firearm mortality rates among youngsters 5 to 14 years old in the five states with the highest rates of gun ownership with those in the five states with the lowest rates.

The results were chilling. Children in the states with the highest rates of gun ownership were 16 times as likely to die from an accidental gunshot wound, nearly seven times as likely to commit suicide with a gun, and more than three times as likely to be murdered with a firearm.

Only a lunatic could seriously believe that more guns in more homes is good for America’s children.

absolutely but america will never disarm
how many Wacos would there be if the attempt was made

I'm genuinely having trouble these days reconciling my love for this country with my disdain for so many of the people in it. I'm cynical enough to believe that it's probably not that much better anywhere else, but maybe it'll be different enough to fool me for a while.

Articles like this should get people thinking but instead it will be absorbed as gratifying pabulum for the people that agree and completely dismissed by the people that don't (after all, it's from the Yankee, beholden-to-the-liberal-agenda New York Times).

adam wrote:

Those who are interested in the safety and well-being of children should keep in mind that only motor vehicle accidents and cancer kill more children in the U.S. than firearms. A study released a few years ago by the Harvard School of Public Health compared firearm mortality rates among youngsters 5 to 14 years old in the five states with the highest rates of gun ownership with those in the five states with the lowest rates.

The results were chilling. Children in the states with the highest rates of gun ownership were 16 times as likely to die from an accidental gunshot wound, nearly seven times as likely to commit suicide with a gun, and more than three times as likely to be murdered with a firearm.

Only a lunatic could seriously believe that more guns in more homes is good for America’s children.

They are 7 times more likely to commit suicide ***with a gun,*** the question is, are they 7 times more likely to commit suicide? They are 3 times more likely to by murdered ***with a gun,*** but are they 3 times as likely to be murdererd?

adam wrote:

absolutely but america will never disarm
how many Wacos would there be if the attempt was made

*sigh*

Are you saying every American is a polygamistic charismatic cult leader with a messianic complex?

Since this is a pay site, I can't read the article you meme'd.

Hijexx wrote:

adam wrote:

absolutely but america will never disarm
how many Wacos would there be if the attempt was made

*sigh*

Are you saying every American is a polygamistic charismatic cult leader with a messianic complex?

Since this is a pay site, I can't read the article you meme'd.

i'm certainly not saying that "every American is a polygamistic charismatic cult leader with a messianic complex" but i'm saying that Americans love their guns and that there is a significant minority that completely agree with Charlon Heston when he says "they" will only get his gun(s) by taking them from his "cold dead hands"
the reference to Waco was because the issue which started that siege was, if my memory serves me correctly, firearms -- initially the authorities outside Waco were the ATF (the Treasury bureau responsible for Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms)
America is full of ordinary decent libertarians, right-wing fascist shit heads, god bothering charismatic backwoodsmen, and a wide spectrum of people who don't fit any particular label or category but wouldn't part from their guns without a fight
i'm not arguing the ethics of gun control -- to me gun conrol is bloody obvious -- i see no reason why i need a gun as a UK citizen -- there is no ethical reason but the problems with gun control in America boils down to pragmatics. It may be possible to end the American love affair with the gun, that icon of the West, of liberty, of masculinity -- I hope it is but it is a process which would take generations.

I am sure gun conrol will happen in America but whether there will still be a United States by the time British style gun control happens I doubt -- by that time there will be a global government, we will have colonised the solar system and terrorists will be armed with nanotech virusues -- timescale the next 150 to 200 years
the only way to achieve effective gun control in America is to chip away at the edges -- to me the logic of gun conrol has Satyagraha -- truth-force -- it will happen
so when i said it would never happen
amend that to my lifetime and the lives of my nieces but maybe in their children's lifetimes
i think people should be realistic about what a signicant shift needs to take place as is clear to me when decent intelligent people like dc0de can't be convinced and think it's about their freedom

be a taoist about it -- be like water and wear away at the problem -- don't confront -- don't challenge -- don't threaten -- do what is achievable -- be pragmatic -- i don't mean have a hidden agenda -- be open and honest about what you want -- be reasonable -- be calm -- be like water wearing away a rock

so the approach has to be incremental or there will be lots of Wacos
what needs to change is American culture, the American zeitgeist
part of what i'm attacking is what to me is bullshit macho individualism "he can't be a man if he doesn't smoke the same cigarettes as me" -- not to destroy it for I believe it has many positive attributes but rather to encourage a sea-change -- in the full Shakespeare's The Tempest sense