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This page contains all of the posts and discussion on MemeStreams referencing the following web page: New bill would tighten rules for DHS border laptop searches. You can find discussions on MemeStreams as you surf the web, even if you aren't a MemeStreams member, using the Threads Bookmarklet.

New bill would tighten rules for DHS border laptop searches
by flynn23 at 10:06 am EDT, Sep 17, 2008

Customs and Border Patrol agents can grab your laptop, BlackBerry, or external hard drive without needing so much as a reason, but a new bill introduced last week to Congress would at least put some limits on how border searches could be done.

Was there ever an explanation given other than "security" as to why they are seizing these items?


 
RE: New bill would tighten rules for DHS border laptop searches
by Decius at 10:39 am EDT, Sep 17, 2008

flynn23 wrote:

Customs and Border Patrol agents can grab your laptop, BlackBerry, or external hard drive without needing so much as a reason, but a new bill introduced last week to Congress would at least put some limits on how border searches could be done.

Was there ever an explanation given other than "security" as to why they are seizing these items?

So they can perform a forensic analysis of them in search of evidence of any crime.


  
RE: New bill would tighten rules for DHS border laptop searches
by flynn23 at 10:11 am EDT, Sep 18, 2008

Decius wrote:

flynn23 wrote:

Customs and Border Patrol agents can grab your laptop, BlackBerry, or external hard drive without needing so much as a reason, but a new bill introduced last week to Congress would at least put some limits on how border searches could be done.

Was there ever an explanation given other than "security" as to why they are seizing these items?

So they can perform a forensic analysis of them in search of evidence of any crime.

So is this just an end run on habeus corpus? Or is it a legal "grey zone" because we're dealing with border checkpoints and not terra firma?

God, what the fuck is wrong with these people? Who is sitting in a meeting where this gets proposed and says "I think that's a good idea..."???


   
RE: New bill would tighten rules for DHS border laptop searches
by Decius at 11:57 am EDT, Sep 18, 2008

You should come hear my talk at Phreaknic. I'll cover all of this.

flynn23 wrote:
So is this just an end run on habeus corpus?

No. Habeus Corpus is an unrelated concept ... the notion that if the executive seizes a person they must explain their reasons and authority for doing so to an independent decision maker (the judiciary). U.S. Customs is not seizing people, just laptops. It might be more appropriate to ask if this is an end run around the 4th amendment...

Or is it a legal "grey zone" because we're dealing with border checkpoints and not terra firma?

Yes and no. Its not technically a "grey zone." The 4th amendment is said to apply at the border. However, the 4th amendment has two parts:

1. No unreasonable searches.
2. Warrants require probable cause.

The problem here is that it tells you what you need to get a warrant, but it doesn't tell you when a warrant is required. It has a loophole... It only requires that searches be reasonable, and reasonable means whatever people think it ought to.

The Supreme Court has decided that all border searches are reasonable by virtue of the fact that they occur at the border....

God, what the fuck is wrong with these people? Who is sitting in a meeting where this gets proposed and says "I think that's a good idea..."???

It doesn't happen that way. The water just keeps getting hotter until the frog starts to boil but when the frog complains the cook says "Why are you complaining now? The burner has been on for half an hour and you never said a thing! If it was OK for the burner to be on 10 minutes ago it must be OK for it to be on now! Shut up!"

In the 1790's Congress allowed customs to search shipping vessels if they had reason to suspect they contained contraban. Two months later the same Congress also passed the 4th amendment.

In the 1970's, the Supreme Court decided that the only way to reconcile these two decisions is to conclude that border searches don't require a warrant -- they are presumptively reasonable.

In 1985, during the drug war, the Supreme Court relied on that 1970's decision that all border searches are presumptively reasonable to declare that customs agents do not need a reason to perform a routine search (note that this has morphed somewhat from where we were in 1790). However, they also declared that non-routine searches still require reasonable suspicion.

In 2004, the Supreme Court relied on that 1985 decision to declare that the removal and disassembly of a gas tank from an automobile is a routine search and can be performed without any reasonable suspicion. The frogs were a bit warm at this point.

In the spring of 2008 the 9th circuit court of appeals ruled that searches of the content of laptop computers are routine searches and can be performed without any reasonable suspicion.

The frogs are now complaining that it is quite hot in here. Customs is arguing that there has been no policy change in regard to routine searches and that these court opinions just confirm prior policy. What this argument ignores is that technology has changed. People are now bring far more information across the border on a more frequent basis than they were before, and that changes the stakes. More at Phreaknic.


New bill would tighten rules for DHS border laptop searches
by Rattle at 9:04 am EDT, Sep 17, 2008

Customs and Border Patrol agents can grab your laptop, BlackBerry, or external hard drive without needing so much as a reason, but a new bill introduced last week to Congress would at least put some limits on how border searches could be done.

"I was deeply concerned to learn about the lack of protections individuals' have when their electronic equipment is randomly seized," said Rep. Loretta Sanchez (D-CA), who introduced the bill. "With the passage of the Border Search Accountability Act of 2008, Americans will be able to travel with more peace of mind knowing that their data will be further protected and that there are stringent accountability measures in place for safeguarding their personal information."

Note what her bill will not do—make searches more difficult.

This isn't what we really want, as it doesn't attempt to set any limits on searches. It does add more transparency to the process, and that is a good thing. It should be supported.

Sanchez's bill would bring more routine to the search process. The bill requires the government to draft additional rules regarding information security, the number of days a device can be retained, receipts that must be issued when devices are taken, ways to report abuses, and it requires the completion of both a privacy impact study and a civil liberties impact study. Travelers would also have the explicit right to watch as the search is conducted.

Sanchez also wants data about the searches, which would have to be turned over to Congress once per quarter. Specifically, she wants to know how many searches are being done, where they take place, and the race and nationality of those being searched.

The Department of Homeland Security actually issued search rules over the summer; while they were the first rules made public on the process, which had started to look quite ad-hoc, they still came in for criticism from groups like the Association of Corporate Travel Executives. ACTE, which doesn't like have executive laptops pinched whenever someone travels overseas, complained in early August that devices could basically be kept indefinitely, the data could be shared with foreign governments, and no data destruction procedures were spelled out.

This is unlikely to make it out of committee in any form before the end of the current congress. The situation is getting much needed attention though.


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