Create an Account
username: password:
 
  MemeStreams Logo

RE: Senators Reach Deal on Filibuster

search

Decius
Picture of Decius
Decius's Pics
My Blog
My Profile
My Audience
My Sources
Send Me a Message

sponsored links

Decius's topics
Arts
  Literature
   Sci-Fi/Fantasy Literature
  Movies
   Sci-Fi/Fantasy Films
  Music
   Electronic Music
Business
  Finance & Accounting
  Tech Industry
  Telecom Industry
  Management
  Markets & Investing
Games
Health and Wellness
Home and Garden
  Parenting
Miscellaneous
  Humor
  MemeStreams
Current Events
  War on Terrorism
Recreation
  Cars and Trucks
  Travel
Local Information
  United States
   SF Bay Area
    SF Bay Area News
Science
  Biology
  History
  Math
  Nano Tech
  Physics
Society
  Economics
  Politics and Law
   Civil Liberties
    Internet Civil Liberties
    Surveillance
   Intellectual Property
  Media
   Blogging
Sports
Technology
  Computer Security
  Macintosh
  Spam
  High Tech Developments

support us

Get MemeStreams Stuff!


 
RE: Senators Reach Deal on Filibuster
Topic: Society 12:42 am EDT, May 25, 2005

] Article 2 Section 2 Clause 2: [Speaking about the powers of
] the president] He shall have Power, by and with the Advice
] and Consent of the Senate, to make Treaties, provided two
] thirds of the Senators present concur; and he shall nominate,
] and by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, shall
] appoint Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls,
] Judges of the supreme Court, and all other Officers of the
] United States, whose Appointments are not herein otherwise
] provided for, and which shall be established by Law: but the
] Congress may by Law vest the Appointment of such inferior
] Officers, as they think proper, in the President alone, in the
] Courts of Law, or in the Heads of Departments.

So, what does this mean. John Jay Hooker, who, incidentally, believes that there ought to be a constitutional amendment to require a 2/3rds majority of the senate for judicial confirmations and wants to end lifetime appointments, thinks that judicial fillibusters are unconstitutional. His arguement is fairly persuasive.

The constitution requires a 2/3rd majority of the "senators present" to approve a treaty. It does not make this requirement for judicial appointments. It requires only consent. What does consent mean?

I've managed to think about this long enough that I can see both sides.

The most obvious meaning for a legislative body is a simple majority. This is the most plain and obvious way of thinking about this. The Consitution requires a simple majority for judicial confirmations. In that light, the fillibuster is unconstitutional, because it creates a super majority requirement.

On the other hand, if the framers intended to require a simple majority they might have said that specifically. They didn't. So, maybe it means whatever the Senate decides it means, as "Each House may determine the rules of its proceedings..." Maybe the Senate can decide that consent means whatever they want in any situation where the constitution doesn't specify.

The danger of the later train of thinking is that I'm concerned that it is over thinking the issue. It might be sophistry. The constitution specifically mentions super majorities in situations where extra care must be taken (such as for impeachment.) The default case is obviously a simple majority. If it were "whatever the senate defines" then the senate could require unanimous consent for any legislative issue, which would create the preverse situation in which impeachment would require less consent then the passage of a simple law.

The danger of the former way of thinking is that if a simple majority is required for judicial nominations, then it may required for all other kinds of senate business. Now the filibuster has been a part of parlimentary proceedure for over 200 years. The idea that its unconstituional in general is rather radical thinking. You'd think this would have come up before. On the other hand, the idea that a simple majority might be required is more important in the context of a judicial nomination then other legislative business, as in this case the Constitution is balancing the power of the President with that of the Legislature and is not simply setting the legislature's responsibilities.

Resolving this question would require a constitutional scholar. Someone who is actually familiar with the context in which these words were written. WHY didn't they set a 2/3rds requirement for judicial nominations? Were they assuming at the time that it would default to a simple majority, or were they assuming that the Senate would figure something out on their one. The deliberations over this very passage would illuminate that, but I've no idea where to research that kind of question. Its the sort of thing Clarence Thomas would write a decision on...

There is hubris is allowing the intent of people who lived 200 years ago to drive our system today, but the rules are very difficult to change. Its much easier to interpret them in your favor then it is to make them plainly say what you think they ought to say. The fear is that we do not have men in this time who have the detachment and self control needed to craft something like this. If our politicians wrote us a new constitution from scratch we would end up with a terrible system in which today's vested interests insure their long term positions at the cost of everyone else.

RE: Senators Reach Deal on Filibuster



 
 
Powered By Industrial Memetics
RSS2.0